Curry launches data collective to counter secret podcast alliances
- A new independent data collective will publish listener metrics from 10% of the market to challenge corporate platforms.
- Industry insiders secretly defined a ‘play’ as just 30 seconds, a standard critics say inflates ad metrics.
- Mid-tier creators gain new monetization tools as the battle over measurement splits the industry.
Podcasting’s quiet war over listener data is shifting from secret meetings to open confrontation. Adam Curry is launching the Podcast Data Collective (PCDC), aiming to scrape precise consumption data from independent podcast apps that serve roughly 10% of the market. The plan, detailed on his show, is to publish the findings freely to establish a source of truth, then charge hosting companies and data brokers for access - a “pre-announced rug pull” on an industry Curry says thrives on inflated numbers.
This move directly counters secretive alliances like the Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting (AMP), which has been operating for a year. On Podnews, James Cridland reported AMP claims inconsistent definitions are sidelining $1 billion in annual ad revenue and plans to reveal its findings in July. A key point of contention is AMP’s reported definition of a “play” as just 30 seconds of content - a metric Curry dismissed as “bullshit” designed to protect low-quality ad inventory.
“Any decision reached without a transparent logic trail is worthless to the community.”
- Dave Jones, Podcasting 2.0
The secrecy and exclusion of major players like the IAB, YouTube, and Spotify from AMP have fueled skepticism. Sam Sethi, on Podnews, noted the absence suggests a fractured effort, not a new industry standard. Meanwhile, the battle isn't just over definitions but control. Curry proposes a radical incentive shift: cut podcast app developers into ad revenue in exchange for the first-party listener data they currently hold. James Cridland argues this model, which Apple already employs, would align interests and improve measurement.
As the data war intensifies, mid-tier creators are getting new tools. Captivate and Global’s Dax US have launched a unified monetization suite, targeting what Brian Conland calls the “magic middle” - shows with loyal audiences that lack scale. This bifurcation defines the moment: corporate alliances seek to standardize measurement from the top down, while independent actors build alternative data streams and revenue models from the ground up. The winner will decide what a podcast is actually worth.
Source Intelligence
- Deep dive into what was said in the episodes
Adam Curry
Episode 262: Podcleanse • Jun 5
- The AMP Accords, a secretive group led by Oxford Road and including ad buyers and Libsyn, have ratified new measurement guidelines. Their definition of a 'play' is 30 seconds of content per user per session.
- John Spurlock expresses skepticism that the advertising industry truly wants accurate podcast data, arguing inflated 'fake data' often serves the networks and sellers better than truth.
- Adam Curry envisions the Data Collective operating a 'rug pull' model: publishing accurate stats freely to establish trust and value, then charging hosting companies and data brokers for access to fund the app ecosystem.
Also discussed on this episode: (9)
Media (4)
- Adam Curry proposes a Podcast Data Collective (PCDC), a co-op where independent podcast apps aggregate listener data like follows, plays, and completion rates. He argues this would create an accurate, industry-transparent measurement system.
- Curry asserts that independent podcast apps represent 8-10% of overall listening, a sample size he deems statistically sufficient to extrapolate true listener behavior and expose inflated industry metrics.
- Dave says his podcast consumption has steadily declined over five years, and he now finds news-focused podcasts intolerable, opting for audiobooks instead.
- Curry reframes the definition of a podcast as 'syndicated delivery of media files with precise consumption data for all stakeholders,' positioning accurate measurement as a core characteristic.
AI & Tech (1)
- Adam Curry's production robot uses BingIt.io, which searches No Agenda's 18-year corpus of transcripts and clips against current events to generate relevant content clips automatically.
AI Infrastructure (3)
- The HTTP signing proposal, debated in a public GitHub thread, aims to allow stronger client identification for media requests, primarily to combat expensive HLS video streaming abuse.
- John Spurlock argues against HTTP signing and client-based blocking, advocating for hosting companies to use 'smart server filtering' like rate-limiting instead of discriminating based on caller identity.
- Dave notes that hosting companies like Buzzsprout and Red Circle already aggressively block abusive traffic using logs and IP filtering, but doing so intelligently avoids disrupting legitimate app downloads.
Open Source (1)
- The group critiques secret industry groups like the AMP Accords and a private WhatsApp chat, contrasting them with open development processes like the HTTP signing discussion on GitHub.
James Cridland
Captivate's monetisation in the US; and the BBC gets more involved in Crossed Wires • Jun 5
- James Cridland says the Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting (AMP) is defining key terms like 'podcast' and 'impression' to unlock a claimed $1B in sidelined ad demand, with findings to be revealed in July at Oxford Road's CAO Summit.
- Adam Curry suggests cutting podcast app developers into ad revenue to incentivize platform investment, mirroring Apple's model, which Cridland argues would simplify budgeting and enable better market measurement.
- Sam Sethi is skeptical of AMP's secretive process, noting the absence of key industry players like the IAB, Sounds Profitable, YouTube, Spotify, and Acast from its membership.
- Captivate and Global's Dax US have launched a unified monetization suite, combining Captivate's platform with Dax's programmatic and direct sales to target under-monetized mid-tier and hyperlocal creators.
- Brian Conland says Dax US will leverage contextual targeting via partners like Barometer and use attribution partners like Claritas and Podscribe to offer advertisers a single CPM for optimizing across streaming and podcasting.
- The SiriusXM and iHeartMedia merger is not proceeding, which James Cridland predicted, noting Global's 38% stake in iHeartMedia could lead to future consolidation moves.
Also discussed on this episode: (9)
Enterprise (1)
- Mark Asquith states Captivate's new ad marketplace has no qualification barriers, aiming to serve everyone from bedroom creators to enterprise publishers, and will include direct deal facilitation.
AI & Tech (1)
- YouTube reported 800 million hours of podcast consumption by Premium users in April, while also adding podcast-specific features like On The Go mode and AI recommendations in YouTube Music.
Media (6)
- James Cridland criticizes platforms for announcing podcast features to investors or via blog posts instead of directly to podcasters at industry events, citing recent moves by Spotify and YouTube.
- Patreon and Substack are shifting from pure payment processors to content destinations, adding features like feeds and community tools, which Sam Sethi warns could create new walled gardens for audience activity data.
- Tubi has signed a non-exclusive deal with SiriusXM to stream video podcasts like Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, sharing ad sales, representing a more traditional media partnership than Netflix's acquisition model.
- Dino Sofrano says the Crossed Wires festival sold 25,000 tickets last year and will feature a BBC iPlayer channel this year, filming both BBC and commercial shows like Dig It with Zoe Ball and Joe Wiley.
- Dino Sofrano's production company Persifonica focuses on building 360-degree IP brands with talent like Zoe Ball and Greg James, using remote 4K video setups to create intimacy and is exploring US market expansion.
- RSS.com survey data analyzed by Ralph EStep Jr. shows podcast discovery is shifting away from podcast apps, with 6% of new listeners finding their favorite show on YouTube and many using social media or word of mouth.
AI Infrastructure (1)
- Tom Rossi proposes a provable user agent system for podcast apps, similar to DKIM in email, to combat bots fraudulently claiming to be apps like Apple Podcasts and driving up hosting costs, especially for video.