Curry proposes Podcast Data Collective as industry measurement war escalates
- Adam Curry proposes a Podcast Data Collective using data from 10% of independent app listeners to challenge corporate ad metrics.
- A secretive alliance, AMP, claims inconsistent definitions cost the industry $1B but excludes major players like YouTube and the IAB.
- Mid-tier hosting platforms are launching unified ad tech to monetize the underserved 'magic middle' of creators.
The podcast ad industry is getting a new scorekeeper. Adam Curry, co-founder of the Podcast Index, is launching the Podcast Data Collective (PCDC) to counter what he calls a 'podcast industrial complex' built on inflated metrics. His plan is to aggregate consumption data from independent podcast apps, which he claims cover 10% of the market, and publish it freely. He aims to undercut secretive industry alliances.
One such alliance is the AMP Accords, a group that has operated in secret for a year and has defined a 'play' as a mere 30 seconds of content. John Spurlock, who highlighted the group, expressed skepticism that the ad industry truly wants accurate data. Curry dismissed the 30-second standard as 'bullshit' designed to protect low-quality ad inventory.
"The AMP Accords, a secretive group led by Oxford Road and including ad buyers and Libsyn, have ratified new measurement guidelines. Their definition of a 'play' is 30 seconds of content per user per session."
- Source: Podcasting 2.0
AMP claims inconsistent podcast definitions are costing the industry $1 billion in sidelined ad revenue. However, James Cridland of Podnews notes the group's secretive process and the absence of major bodies like the IAB, YouTube, and Spotify from its roster. Sam Sethi is skeptical a secret group can force industry-wide alignment.
Concurrently, platforms are moving to monetize a different gap. Captivate and Dax US have launched a unified ad marketplace targeting the 'magic middle' - mid-tier shows with loyal audiences that lack enterprise sales tools. Brian Conland of Dax US says they'll offer advertisers a single CPM, using contextual targeting and attribution to compete with streaming.
"James Cridland says the Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting (AMP) is defining key terms like 'podcast' and 'impression' to unlock a claimed $1B in sidelined ad demand, with findings to be revealed in July at Oxford Road's CAO Summit."
- Source: Podnews Weekly Review
While Curry's PCDC seeks to rug-pull from the outside by establishing open data, and AMP tries to standardize from within a closed room, the battle is over who defines truth in a market desperate for scalable trust.
Source Intelligence
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Adam Curry
Episode 262: Podcleanse • Jun 5
- The AMP Accords, a secretive group led by Oxford Road and including ad buyers and Libsyn, have ratified new measurement guidelines. Their definition of a 'play' is 30 seconds of content per user per session.
- John Spurlock expresses skepticism that the advertising industry truly wants accurate podcast data, arguing inflated 'fake data' often serves the networks and sellers better than truth.
- Adam Curry envisions the Data Collective operating a 'rug pull' model: publishing accurate stats freely to establish trust and value, then charging hosting companies and data brokers for access to fund the app ecosystem.
Also discussed on this episode: (9)
Media (4)
- Adam Curry proposes a Podcast Data Collective (PCDC), a co-op where independent podcast apps aggregate listener data like follows, plays, and completion rates. He argues this would create an accurate, industry-transparent measurement system.
- Curry asserts that independent podcast apps represent 8-10% of overall listening, a sample size he deems statistically sufficient to extrapolate true listener behavior and expose inflated industry metrics.
- Dave says his podcast consumption has steadily declined over five years, and he now finds news-focused podcasts intolerable, opting for audiobooks instead.
- Curry reframes the definition of a podcast as 'syndicated delivery of media files with precise consumption data for all stakeholders,' positioning accurate measurement as a core characteristic.
AI & Tech (1)
- Adam Curry's production robot uses BingIt.io, which searches No Agenda's 18-year corpus of transcripts and clips against current events to generate relevant content clips automatically.
AI Infrastructure (3)
- The HTTP signing proposal, debated in a public GitHub thread, aims to allow stronger client identification for media requests, primarily to combat expensive HLS video streaming abuse.
- John Spurlock argues against HTTP signing and client-based blocking, advocating for hosting companies to use 'smart server filtering' like rate-limiting instead of discriminating based on caller identity.
- Dave notes that hosting companies like Buzzsprout and Red Circle already aggressively block abusive traffic using logs and IP filtering, but doing so intelligently avoids disrupting legitimate app downloads.
Open Source (1)
- The group critiques secret industry groups like the AMP Accords and a private WhatsApp chat, contrasting them with open development processes like the HTTP signing discussion on GitHub.
James Cridland
Captivate's monetisation in the US; and the BBC gets more involved in Crossed Wires • Jun 5
- James Cridland says the Alliance for Measurement in Podcasting (AMP) is defining key terms like 'podcast' and 'impression' to unlock a claimed $1B in sidelined ad demand, with findings to be revealed in July at Oxford Road's CAO Summit.
- Adam Curry suggests cutting podcast app developers into ad revenue to incentivize platform investment, mirroring Apple's model, which Cridland argues would simplify budgeting and enable better market measurement.
- Sam Sethi is skeptical of AMP's secretive process, noting the absence of key industry players like the IAB, Sounds Profitable, YouTube, Spotify, and Acast from its membership.
- Captivate and Global's Dax US have launched a unified monetization suite, combining Captivate's platform with Dax's programmatic and direct sales to target under-monetized mid-tier and hyperlocal creators.
- Brian Conland says Dax US will leverage contextual targeting via partners like Barometer and use attribution partners like Claritas and Podscribe to offer advertisers a single CPM for optimizing across streaming and podcasting.
- The SiriusXM and iHeartMedia merger is not proceeding, which James Cridland predicted, noting Global's 38% stake in iHeartMedia could lead to future consolidation moves.
Also discussed on this episode: (9)
Enterprise (1)
- Mark Asquith states Captivate's new ad marketplace has no qualification barriers, aiming to serve everyone from bedroom creators to enterprise publishers, and will include direct deal facilitation.
AI & Tech (1)
- YouTube reported 800 million hours of podcast consumption by Premium users in April, while also adding podcast-specific features like On The Go mode and AI recommendations in YouTube Music.
Media (6)
- James Cridland criticizes platforms for announcing podcast features to investors or via blog posts instead of directly to podcasters at industry events, citing recent moves by Spotify and YouTube.
- Patreon and Substack are shifting from pure payment processors to content destinations, adding features like feeds and community tools, which Sam Sethi warns could create new walled gardens for audience activity data.
- Tubi has signed a non-exclusive deal with SiriusXM to stream video podcasts like Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, sharing ad sales, representing a more traditional media partnership than Netflix's acquisition model.
- Dino Sofrano says the Crossed Wires festival sold 25,000 tickets last year and will feature a BBC iPlayer channel this year, filming both BBC and commercial shows like Dig It with Zoe Ball and Joe Wiley.
- Dino Sofrano's production company Persifonica focuses on building 360-degree IP brands with talent like Zoe Ball and Greg James, using remote 4K video setups to create intimacy and is exploring US market expansion.
- RSS.com survey data analyzed by Ralph EStep Jr. shows podcast discovery is shifting away from podcast apps, with 6% of new listeners finding their favorite show on YouTube and many using social media or word of mouth.
AI Infrastructure (1)
- Tom Rossi proposes a provable user agent system for podcast apps, similar to DKIM in email, to combat bots fraudulently claiming to be apps like Apple Podcasts and driving up hosting costs, especially for video.